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 Post subject: HD Display Options
PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2005 9:53 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 10:12 pm
Posts: 128
Location: Chicago, IL
OK, so the options seem to be VGA to component converter and DVI to DVI or HDMI. However, in various threads I've read where people have trouble getting 1080i working with one or the other.

My TV will have a DVI in and 2 component ins so I have options.

What are people here using?

If DVI, which video card, NVIDIA or ATI is likely to be most trouble-free?

Thanks,

Amy


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 12:01 am 
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Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 11:55 pm
Posts: 1206
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Some sets actually have VGA inputs (e.g. Pioneer PRO-610HD). A lot of folks have issues with DVI. I've seen messages on myth-user which question if anyone has made it work with interlaced displays. I think nVidia cards are the best supported right now.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 6:52 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 10:12 pm
Posts: 128
Location: Chicago, IL
hmm,

so I got my HDTV (yeah!) and I got my Audio Authority transcoder thingie, found myself a 1080i modeline (and a 1280x720p one too) but they don't fill my screen. I have a 30" widescreen set and I have a good 2" black on one side and 3" black on the other. That is for the myth gui and hd programming I'm watching from my air2pc card. I'm missing the edges on HD programming too. I can tell because my set has an integrated HD tuner and if I flip over to it, I can see I'm missing details at the edges.

Is this just something I need to tweak with the modeline (adjust numbers 2,3,4 etc?)

It's almost like it thinks it's 4:3, but the resolution is clearly for 16:9.

Thanks.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 12:08 am 
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Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 11:55 pm
Posts: 1206
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Here's (most of) my XF86Config-4 file:
Code:
Section "Monitor"
        Identifier      "Monitor0"
        Option  "DPMS"  "false"
        VendorName      "Pioneer"
        ModelName       "PRO-610HD"
        HorizSync 31.5 - 37.9
        VertRefresh 59 - 61
        ModeLine "ATSC-1080-59.94i" 74.176 1920 1960 2016 2200 1080 1082 1088 1125 Interlace

EndSection

Section "Device"
        ### Available Driver options are:-
        # sw_cursor is needed for some ati and radeon cards
        #Option     "sw_cursor"
        #Option     "hw_cursor"
        #Option     "NoAccel"
        #Option     "ShowCache"
        #Option     "ShadowFB"
        #Option     "UseFBDev"
        #Option     "Rotate"
        Identifier  "Card0"
        #Option      "RenderAccel"
# The following line is auto-generated by KNOPPIX mkxf86config
        Driver      "nvidia"
        VendorName  "All"
        BoardName   "All"
#       BusID       "PCI:1:0:0"
EndSection

Section "Screen"
        Identifier "Screen0"
        Device     "Card0"
        Monitor    "Monitor0"
        DefaultColorDepth 24
        SubSection "Display"
                Depth     24
                Modes "ATSC-1080-59.94i"
        EndSubSection
EndSection

Section "DRI"
        Mode 0666
EndSection

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 6:53 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 10:12 pm
Posts: 128
Location: Chicago, IL
hmmm, on a hunch I moved my component over to the other comonent in on the TV, and poof, full widescreen. Now to change all the stuff I changed trying to troubleshoot that problem. Oi vey!

Thanks for your config file Liv2Cod, I'm making a collection of ModeLines.

Right now, the 720P modeline I have is much nicer than the 1080i one. There is too much flickering in the menus of myth with 1080i. TV, videos and recordings look OK, but the gui gives me a crashing headache.

Amy


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 3:12 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2003 10:38 am
Posts: 4978
Location: Nashville, TN
ok I have got the converter now, and just about every modeline I've thrown at it works and gives me a clear picture, but they are all rediculously overscaned. where I loose about 1/3 of the picture. Are you guys seeing this same affect? Does anyone know of an easy way to adjust to reduce the overscan? I've read you increase the dot clock, but have to reduce the horz and vert sync to compensate, and I'd rather not have to bread down and spend several days crunching on the numbers if I don't have to.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 7:35 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 11:55 pm
Posts: 1206
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
You aren't gonna like my answer...

Overscan in HD mode is VERY common, and is almost always a misconfiguration of the TV set. I had it on my Pioneer. Ridiculous amounts of overscan on all sides. I hired a consultant (ISF technician) to come to my house and adjust the colors and to re-do the geometry of the set in HD mode. It was expensive. I am surprised to hear that DLP and LCD sets are overscanned too, but they are. There are lots of reports of it on myth-user and other forums.

If you hire an ISF guy, make sure he does geometry -- it is not a standard part of their color calibration service. It cost$ extra, too.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 12:35 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2003 10:38 am
Posts: 4978
Location: Nashville, TN
AARRRGGGHHH!!!! looks like you are right. I did some searching that confirmed what you said, but man that's another $250-400 this thing just keeps snowballing It looks like to do a good mythtv/hdtv setup you better plan on $5000 or more, and that's a big chunk of change for a poor sap like me. :cry: oh well I guess I'm down to the last couple of pieces now.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 6:36 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 10:08 am
Posts: 1637
Location: Virginia, USA
My older HDTV (entry level Toshiba projection) had problems with overscan and lots of different modelines. I have ended up running 960x480p in a 540p timing... yes, I'm missing out on 60 vertical lines of resolution (mine is 540p max), but the picture fits perfectly and isn't distorted. None of the modelines I found online worked; I ended up going the Windows/Powerstrip route.

The ISF calibration is really worth saving for, though, even beyond adjusting geometry to avoid overscan. It made a big difference in shadow detail and fleshtones.

My modeline is:

Code:
ModeLine "960x480" 42.187 960 1052 1100 1248 480 503 504 563 +hsync +vsync


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 9:28 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2003 10:38 am
Posts: 4978
Location: Nashville, TN
yeah I tried playing with using smaller resolutions in the 1080i timings, but turns out it's not only overscanned, but also very off center. Guess I'm going to have to shell out for a tech once I find one.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:11 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 10:51 am
Posts: 71
Location: Carlsbad, CA
I've got a DLP, and had the same problem with overscan. I'm using VGA-> VGA with an Geforce 2 card. In PC mode (what they call the vga connection), I can change the width, but not the height. As a result I adjusted the width on the TV, then adjusted the height in the Myth Utilities/Setup area and specified to use the GUI settings on the TV.

Good luch on your adventure!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 12:18 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:04 pm
Posts: 369
Xsecrets wrote:
yeah I tried playing with using smaller resolutions in the 1080i timings, but turns out it's not only overscanned, but also very off center. Guess I'm going to have to shell out for a tech once I find one.


I find it rather odd that owning an HDTV seems to be like owning a high-end, low-production-number sports car. Lots of expensive extra care is needed to keep it running the way it's advertised to work. :)

On a more serious note, what is the consesus on this topic: are these early adopter issues, or will all HDTVs require specially trained personnel to come set them up and maintain them?

-brendan


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 12:49 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 10:08 am
Posts: 1637
Location: Virginia, USA
First, remember what we're talking about here: getting a HTPC working with a HDTV. This is not something most people are doing. If you just want to plug a DVD player and a HDTV tuner into it, it works just fine.

Secondly, the ISF calibration thing is certainly optional. Most people will look at their TVs and think they look absolutely great. Then they'll go out and get a calibration disc like Avia or DVE and they'll realize that it can look even better. For those who want to go all the way, and don't mind the expense, there's ISF.

I literally paid 1/4 of the cost of my TV to have it done ($400) and I don't regret it. The technician took it apart, manually focused my lenses, cleaned them, did a 49-point convergence, and THEN started on adjusting the color guns.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 12:52 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 11:55 pm
Posts: 1206
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
HD definitely suffers from "early adoption" syndrome. I have learned a lot since I bought my first HDTV and I would buy it differently now. I would have it delivered and would make them stand there while I fired it up and checked for overscan. If it were overscanned by more than a few percent, the STORE would hire a tech to reconfigure the geometry. If many customers started doing the same, you can bet the manufacturers would feel pressure pretty quick to adjust the sets PROPERLY before they shipped them.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 3:23 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2003 10:38 am
Posts: 4978
Location: Nashville, TN
Well I don't buy the argument that a hdtv tuner would work fine. I may look ok and you not realize that you are missing alot of the picture. It's obvious on mythtv, because you can't see half the interface, but I just can't belive my modelines are that far off. I literally have about 30% or more overscan. Unfortunately I don't think it would have done me much good to have the tech come out from the store, because at the time I didn't have an hdtv device to connect, and the overscan doesn't appear to be nearly as bad on sdtv connections. Although I guess a good tech should have a device to generate 480i 480p 720p and 1080i for testing purposes anyways.

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