LinHES Forums :: View topic - Poll: HDMI capture card

The main technical limitation of the card is that it needs to see an HDCP-compliant signal in order to work.

Oh no, you gotta be kidding me... This card captures UNCOMPRESSED HD and streams it to the disk?!?

Could you expand on what you mean by that? It sounds to me like the card will only record encrypted HDMI streams.

So if I have a blueray player that is playing a disc that does not use HDCP protection this card can't record that stream. But if I play a disc that does use HDCP then it will record. That makes no sense. I must be missing something.

This would be most useful in conjunction with a [component video + optical audio] -> HDMI converter box, since there'd be no DRM on that path. Unless people start making displays that require DRM, of course.

From what I've read, if you are playing from a source that does not do HDCP, the card will not record. If you are playing from a source that does do HDCP (and says not to record) then the card will not record. It will only record when fed by a source that does HDCP and gives permission to record.

I'll vote no. I see no reason to support over restrictive copy protection schemes.

ryanpatterson wrote:

I'll vote no. I see no reason to support over restrictive copy protection schemes.

I agreee with ryan. Based on the info I have at this point, you'll most likely only be able to record your locals off a digital cable box.

From the responses on the poll, maybe there really isn't enough demand for this HDMI capture card in Linux. I was hoping to show them thousands of responses and get them interested in Linux support.

Author:	Human [ Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:06 am ]
Post subject:	Poll: HDMI capture card
The Blackmagic Intensity is a PCI-Express HDMI capture card coming out in the next few weeks. Some of us are trying to convince them to get the card to Linux driver developers (and Cecil) for Linux/KnoppMyth support. The main technical limitation of the card is that it needs to see an HDCP-compliant signal in order to work.

Author:	Human [ Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:28 pm ]
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Just wanted to add that if you select No. (other reason) please consider replying here with the reason.

Author:	Human [ Thu Oct 26, 2006 6:29 pm ]
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This may be the missing link for some STBs: https://www.audioauthority.com/indexh.p ... Product=16 It takes coaxial S/PDIF audio and DVI and outputs HDCP-compliant HDMI.

Author:	aaronb [ Thu Oct 26, 2006 7:08 pm ]
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So will this card allow recording the HD stream from my cable company STB? Or will it be limited the same way as firewire, i.e. I can only record the things my cable co. allows me to record?

Author:	ceenvee703 [ Thu Oct 26, 2006 7:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Poll: HDMI capture card
Human wrote: The main technical limitation of the card is that it needs to see an HDCP-compliant signal in order to work. What devices out there (set-top boxes, upsampling DVD, HD-DVD, Blu-Ray, etc.) are or aren't outputting a HDCP-compliant signal... and how would one know? If something like (say) a Blu-Ray player sends a HDCP-compliant signal to the card, and it is telling the card "don't let this be copied," does that mean the card will prevent that from being recorded? I guess I thought that it wouldn't be possible to implement HDCP via open source, and thus it was going to effectively lock Linux out.

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Poll: HDMI capture card http://forum.linhes.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12334	Page 1 of 2

Author:	Liv2Cod [ Thu Oct 26, 2006 11:08 pm ]
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Oh no, you gotta be kidding me... This card captures UNCOMPRESSED HD and streams it to the disk?!? No MPEG2 here, boys. Hope you have a disk drive factory in your back yard...

Author:	ryanpatterson [ Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:47 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Poll: HDMI capture card
Human wrote: The main technical limitation of the card is that it needs to see an HDCP-compliant signal in order to work. Could you expand on what you mean by that? It sounds to me like the card will only record encrypted HDMI streams. So if I have a blueray player that is playing a disc that does not use HDCP protection this card can't record that stream. But if I play a disc that does use HDCP then it will record. That makes no sense. I must be missing something.

Author:	ceenvee703 [ Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:34 am ]
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Liv2Cod wrote: Oh no, you gotta be kidding me... This card captures UNCOMPRESSED HD and streams it to the disk?!? In their usual target market, that's a good thing. Rather than suffer with the problems that the HDV codec introduces, you can capture uncompressed from a prosumer HD camera. But for what KnoppMyth is doing, I agree that capturing uncompressed isn't so cool. They do say, however, "...because uncompressed video in HD requires a fast disk array, to save cost, you can also choose compressed video that’s higher quality than HDV. For example you can use DV 100 codec on Mac OS X which is 4 times better quality than HDV, or on Windows you can choose our new full resolution JPEG codec." http://www.blackmagic-design.com/produc ... y/quality/ The question is, are there open-source codecs that can work with the card, and can they work in real time.

Author:	Human [ Fri Oct 27, 2006 9:23 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Poll: HDMI capture card
ryanpatterson wrote: Could you expand on what you mean by that? It sounds to me like the card will only record encrypted HDMI streams. HDCP-compliant doesn't necessarily mean HDCP-protected, it just means the device has that option. If their card gets an HDCP-compliant signal that says "it's ok to record this" then it should work. This is admittedly a combination of general information about the capture card and the HDCP spec, and some speculation. ryanpatterson wrote: So if I have a blueray player that is playing a disc that does not use HDCP protection this card can't record that stream. But if I play a disc that does use HDCP then it will record. That makes no sense. I must be missing something. From what I've read, if you are playing from a source that does not do HDCP, the card will not record. If you are playing from a source that does do HDCP (and says not to record) then the card will not record. It will only record when fed by a source that does HDCP and gives permission to record.

Author:	nharris [ Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:51 am ]
Post subject:
I am waiting on something which may never happen. A component capture device with hardware HD encoder which also adds a coax/optical SPDIF input to the stream. My guess is that a HDMI capture will be all but worthless... manufacturers are going to turn on DHCP and you will not be able to record anything. <..after some additional reading..> Human wrote: This would be most useful in conjunction with a [component video + optical audio] -> HDMI converter box, since there'd be no DRM on that path. Unless people start making displays that require DRM, of course. This would be a possible path... not clean and sort of expensive, but it would get you there. So, I'm changing my vote to YES, I'll buy one if support arrives.

Author:	ryanpatterson [ Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:24 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Poll: HDMI capture card
Human wrote: From what I've read, if you are playing from a source that does not do HDCP, the card will not record. If you are playing from a source that does do HDCP (and says not to record) then the card will not record. It will only record when fed by a source that does HDCP and gives permission to record. I'll vote no. I see no reason to support over restrictive copy protection schemes.

Author:	mihanson [ Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Poll: HDMI capture card
ryanpatterson wrote: I'll vote no. I see no reason to support over restrictive copy protection schemes. I agreee with ryan. Based on the info I have at this point, you'll most likely only be able to record your locals off a digital cable box. That can be done now with firewire. I would doubt HD cable channels (ESPN, Discovery, HBO, Showtime, et al) would "allow" their streams to be recorded. Of course if there is an (affordable) device that you could put between your cable box and the card that would alter the DRM/HDCP permissions...

Author:	Human [ Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:58 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Poll: HDMI capture card
mihanson wrote: ryanpatterson wrote: I'll vote no. I see no reason to support over restrictive copy protection schemes. I agreee with ryan. Based on the info I have at this point, you'll most likely only be able to record your locals off a digital cable box. Not necessarily for people with DVI outputs on their STBs. I'm checking with Audio Authority to see what their "1311" DVI+S/PDIF -> HDMI box sends. From what I've read, when HDCP is in place, it's always there, but it can be used to either reduce video quality or leave it alone. On the theme of Ted Stevens' "internet as tubes" sppech, HDCP is like a valve - it can be fully open, or set to a trickle. And HDCP devices will only listen to other HDCP devices, so in that case, it's as if the valve is closed. So if the "1311" talks HDCP, but always says, "This source is unrestricted" then there should be no problem. This is all an "if" currently and would only apply to people with DVI outputs. From the responses on the poll, maybe there really isn't enough demand for this HDMI capture card in Linux. I was hoping to show them thousands of responses and get them interested in Linux support.

Author:	thornsoft [ Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:32 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Poll: HDMI capture card
Human wrote: From the responses on the poll, maybe there really isn't enough demand for this HDMI capture card in Linux. I was hoping to show them thousands of responses and get them interested in Linux support. I think it's hard to envision right now. Maybe if it's a big success in Windows, and Myth users become envious of what their Windows buddies are able to do, then demand will appear. Or if there's wide proliferation of boxes that can feed this card, with no DCP in the way, then demand will be there. But meanwhile, I'm just not seeing a big need for this.

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Author:	Liv2Cod [ Mon Oct 30, 2006 10:30 am ]
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If this thing is recording uncompressed DV you're looking at something like 10 times the storage needed for a show. That means approx 80G bytes for a one-hour 1080i broadcast. This is not practical for a recording device. Maybe it would be useful for watching live TV, but not timeshifting.