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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:04 pm 
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Well I am making some progress. Your suggestion of
Code:
Option      "ExactModeTimingsDVI" "True"
seems to allow me ignore the EDID settings. The only trouble is the image is not matching the screen size so some further tuning is required.

One problem that makes tuning difficult is the length of the Xorg.0.log file. When starting up, X tries to validate a total of 152 modes of "native backend timings", which makes the log file over 2000 lines. Is there any way I can limit this to only the modes that I am requesting in the xorg.conf?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:25 am 
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Have you tried a resolution of "nvidia-auto-select"? Gives me 1080p in 16:9

Mike

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 6:53 am 
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That suggestion wasn't something that could be used in isolation or intended to be the whole solution. Once you limit the set of modes to the DVI standard ones using ExactModeTimingsDVI you still need to pick the right one(s). Look at your X log file, it should list the modes provided by that. Put the names (the bit in double quotes after 'Modes in ModePool') of the appropriate one(s) for your TV in the Screen/Display section from most preferred to least. Note that the "nvidia-auto-select" suggested by manicmike is one of these (actually a standard alias for what it deems the best option).

For example my list says this:
Code:
(II) NVIDIA(0): --- Modes in ModePool for SAMSUNG (DFP-0) ---                   
(II) NVIDIA(0): "nvidia-auto-select" : 1920 x 1080 @ 59.94/60 Hz (CEA-861B Format 5) (from: EDID)
(II) NVIDIA(0): "1920x1080"          : 1920 x 1080 @ 59.94/60 Hz (CEA-861B Format 5) (from: EDID)
(II) NVIDIA(0): "1920x1080_60i"      : 1920 x 1080 @ 59.94/60 Hz (CEA-861B Format 5) (from: EDID)
(II) NVIDIA(0): "1360x768"           : 1360 x  768 @  60.0 Hz  (from: EDID)     
(II) NVIDIA(0): "1360x768_60"        : 1360 x  768 @  60.0 Hz  (from: EDID)     
(II) NVIDIA(0): "1280x1024"          : 1280 x 1024 @  60.0 Hz  (from: EDID)     
(II) NVIDIA(0): "1280x1024_60"       : 1280 x 1024 @  60.0 Hz  (from: EDID)     
(II) NVIDIA(0): "1280x720"           : 1280 x  720 @  60.0 Hz  (from: EDID)     
(II) NVIDIA(0): "1280x720_60"        : 1280 x  720 @  60.0 Hz  (from: EDID)     
(II) NVIDIA(0): "1280x720_60_0"      : 1280 x  720 @ 59.94/60 Hz (CEA-861B Format 4) (from: EDID)
(II) NVIDIA(0): "1024x768"           : 1024 x  768 @  60.0 Hz  (from: EDID)     
(II) NVIDIA(0): "1024x768_60"        : 1024 x  768 @  60.0 Hz  (from: EDID)     
(II) NVIDIA(0): "800x600"            :  800 x  600 @  60.3 Hz  (from: EDID)     
(II) NVIDIA(0): "800x600_60"         :  800 x  600 @  60.3 Hz  (from: EDID)     
(II) NVIDIA(0): "720x480"            :  720 x  480 @  59.9 Hz  (from: EDID)     
(II) NVIDIA(0): "720x480_60"         :  720 x  480 @  59.9 Hz  (from: EDID)     
(II) NVIDIA(0): "640x480"            :  640 x  480 @  59.9 Hz  (from: EDID)
(II) NVIDIA(0): "640x480_60"         :  640 x  480 @  59.9 Hz  (from: EDID)
(II) NVIDIA(0): --- End of ModePool for SAMSUNG (DFP-0): ---

Based on that and other factors covered elsewhere(*) I made my Screen/Display section look like this:

Code:
Section "Screen"
        Identifier "Screen0"
        Device     "Card0"
        Monitor    "Monitor0"
        DefaultColorDepth 24
        SubSection "Display"
                Depth     1
                Modes "1920x1080_60i" "1280x720_60_0" "720x480_60"
        EndSubSection
        SubSection "Display"
                Depth     4
                Modes "1920x1080_60i" "1280x720_60_0" "720x480_60"
        EndSubSection
        SubSection "Display"
                Depth     8
                Modes "1920x1080_60i" "1280x720_60_0" "720x480_60"
        EndSubSection
        SubSection "Display"
                Depth     15
                Modes "1920x1080_60i" "1280x720_60_0" "720x480_60"
        EndSubSection
        SubSection "Display"
                Depth     16
                Modes "1920x1080_60i" "1280x720_60_0" "720x480_60"
        EndSubSection
        SubSection "Display"
                Depth     24
                Modes "1920x1080_60i" "1280x720_60_0" "720x480_60"
        EndSubSection
        SubSection "Display"
                Depth     32
                Modes "1920x1080_60i" "1280x720_60_0" "720x480_60"
        EndSubSection
EndSection

Note that your Identifier, Device, Monitor and Modes values may be different to match the rest of your xorg.conf file.

(*) See these postings for more on how to chose these values:
http://knoppmyth.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=19668
http://knoppmyth.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=19913


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 6:53 pm 
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tjc, I knew that that it would not be a silver bullet but I was pleased to get it to ignore the EDID data. My problem is getting enough time and the machine available to tinker with it. We have a cold, wet weekend coming up so I will try further then.

Mike, while my machine is still limited by the TV EDID, the "nvidia-auto-select" is 1024x768 which is as good as it gets.
Code:
(II) Jun 26 10:02:47 NVIDIA(0): "nvidia-auto-select" : 1024 x  768 @  60.0 Hz  (from: VESA, EDID)
(II) Jun 26 10:02:47 NVIDIA(0): "1024x768"           : 1024 x  768 @  60.0 Hz  (from: VESA, EDID)
(II) Jun 26 10:02:47 NVIDIA(0): "1024x768_60"        : 1024 x  768 @  60.0 Hz  (from: VESA, EDID)
(II) Jun 26 10:02:47 NVIDIA(0): "1024x768_60_0"      : 1024 x  768 @  60.2 Hz  (from: X Configuration file ModeLine)
(II) Jun 26 10:02:47 NVIDIA(0): "848x477"            :  848 x  477 @  60.0 Hz  (from: EDID)
(II) Jun 26 10:02:47 NVIDIA(0): "848x477_60"         :  848 x  477 @  60.0 Hz  (from: EDID)
(II) Jun 26 10:02:47 NVIDIA(0): "800x600"            :  800 x  600 @  60.3 Hz  (from: X Server, VESA, EDID)
(II) Jun 26 10:02:47 NVIDIA(0): "800x600_60"         :  800 x  600 @  60.3 Hz  (from: X Server, VESA, EDID)
(II) Jun 26 10:02:47 NVIDIA(0): "680x384"            :  680 x  384 @  60.0 Hz DoubleScan  (from: X Server)
(II) Jun 26 10:02:47 NVIDIA(0): "680x384d60"         :  680 x  384 @  60.0 Hz DoubleScan  (from: X Server)
(II) Jun 26 10:02:47 NVIDIA(0): "680x384d60_0"       :  680 x  384 @  59.8 Hz DoubleScan  (from: X Server)
(II) Jun 26 10:02:47 NVIDIA(0): "640x480"            :  640 x  480 @  60.0 Hz  (from: EDID)
(II) Jun 26 10:02:47 NVIDIA(0): "640x480_60"         :  640 x  480 @  60.0 Hz  (from: EDID)
(II) Jun 26 10:02:47 NVIDIA(0): "640x480_60_0"       :  640 x  480 @  59.9 Hz  (from: X Server, VESA)
(II) Jun 26 10:02:47 NVIDIA(0): "512x384"            :  512 x  384 @  60.0 Hz DoubleScan  (from: X Server)
(II) Jun 26 10:02:47 NVIDIA(0): "512x384d60"         :  512 x  384 @  60.0 Hz DoubleScan  (from: X Server)
(II) Jun 26 10:02:47 NVIDIA(0): "400x300"            :  400 x  300 @  60.3 Hz DoubleScan  (from: X Server)
(II) Jun 26 10:02:47 NVIDIA(0): "400x300d60"         :  400 x  300 @  60.3 Hz DoubleScan  (from: X Server)
(II) Jun 26 10:02:47 NVIDIA(0): "320x240"            :  320 x  240 @  60.1 Hz DoubleScan  (from: X Server)
(II) Jun 26 10:02:47 NVIDIA(0): "320x240d60"         :  320 x  240 @  60.1 Hz DoubleScan  (from: X Server)
I will see if it can do any better when it ignores EDID.

I have read in a DTV forum that the DVI input on earlier (~2003) plasma screens like mine was mainly intended for computer access not HDTV so they limited its resolution options. I just need to find a way of tricking it to try higher resolutions on DVI input. My other option is to use the component input which does allow HD resolutions.

Any suggestions on limiting the number of resolutions X tries when starting to reduce the size of the Xorg.0.log?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 7:04 pm 
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nicom wrote:
Any suggestions on limiting the number of resolutions X tries when starting to reduce the size of the Xorg.0.log?

Covered in the posts I linked to above. Searching for the keyword "ModeValidation" will get you lots of info.

Don't know if it would produce any different results for you but I'm using a DVI to HDMI cable myself. Then again the Samsung may be a more recent model with better support for use as a monitor.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 7:26 am 
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Well I am making some more progress.

I can now generate a 720p and a 1080i resolution that is acceptable to X. This has been done by stopping virtually all checks with the following option
Code:
Option "ModeValidation" NoEdidModes,NoVesaModes,NoXServerModes,NoPredefinedModes,NoDFPNativeResolutionCheck,NoEdidMaxPClkCheck,NoHorizSyncCheck,NoVertRefreshCheck"
I then went into Service Menu->MythTV Config->Setup->Appearance and changed the GUI and Video size to one of the new resolutions. Unfortunately the display is displaced to the left by about half a screen. Moving it to the right with Screen Settings does not help as the right side of the image starts to fall off. I assume it has something to do with the offset listed in the Xorg.0.log but I cannot see how to change it. I have searched for how to correct this but cannot find anything. Any ideas?

It still will not let me exceed the EDID pixel rate despite the NoEdidMaxPClkCheck statment. Also, the attempt to reduce the size of the log file by stopping modes (NoEdidModes,NoVesaModes,..etc.) did not work because the modes were still checked and then rejected.

The Xorg.0.log posted here.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 1:18 am 
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nicom wrote:
the display is displaced to the left by about half a screen.


Well, that seems a bit less than satisfactory to me: Very low WAF!

I'm making some assumptions here, which is always dangerous. These are:
1. Your hardware is identical, and you simply updated from knoppmyth 5.5 to LinHES
2. Your xorg.conf from 5.5 was copied to the LinHES via a restore, and it doesn't work.
3. You TV and dvi-d connection to it are also the same as when it all worked.
4. You are using the newest nvidia.

I *have* been known to miss the odd fact already stated. Please let me know.

What I'd do.
If it worked perfectly with the same hardware in KM 5.5 and doesn't work now with the same xorg.conf I would be determining what differences there are.
I'd install the same nvidia module as the KM 5.5 version (96.xx.xx ?) and try it with the old xorg.conf. If it doesn't work, then it's the different kernel, or another loaded module competing for something. If it does work, then it's the newer nvidia module that's causing the problem.

Mike

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 5:17 pm 
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In R5.5 with a Nvidia 7300GS based video card, it should have been using the 173.14.09 driver version. With R6 his log file indicates that he's using the 190.53 driver.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 6:38 pm 
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Mike,

Answering your questions:
1. Hardware is not identical - additional hard drive, new DVD drive, but same TV and graphics card and same DVI connection. I did not update but did new install on the new drive and then copied the recordings and database across. I still have R5.5 on the old drive as backup but will soon repartition it to claim the space.
2. With R5.5 the best I got was 1024x768 so I did not copy the xorg.conf across. I am trying to generate a new one. On R6 it does work fine at 1024x768 which is how we use it, but I am trying to improve on that now that my knowledge is improving (slowly).
3. see 1.
4. 190.53 as per tjc's post. I updated with pacman -S nvidia (I think).

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 8:04 am 
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You may need to force it to ignore the EDID dpi and frequency information to get past the filtering. In the past I had to use the following two options:
Code:
        Option "UseEdidDpi" "false"
        Option "UseEdidFreqs" "false"

Looking at the EDID info from the TV, the 59 Hz - 61 Hz frequency range for the vertical refresh looks like a potential problem for your 50Hz PAL HD modes, so that's the first thing you would need to override. The 1920x1080@50i mode which is already getting validated is probably your best bet, but I'm surprised that you don't have more 50Hz modes.

BTW - Searching for FGL plasma tv didn't turn up any obvious hits, but if you know the brand and model, searching for that and DVI may provide more ideas.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 6:51 pm 
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I have always had the UseEdidFreqs=false option. I added the UseEdidDPI=false option.

I tried the 1280x768@60p. The image is stable but this time is displaced the right (not the left) but only by about an inch.

So, my next plan is to try modelines for different refresh rates and horiz sync times.
1. Is there any problem using refresh rates between 50 and 60 Hz?
2. The modeline calculator I use (xtiming.sourceforge.net) suggests horiz sync rates between 3.5 and 4 microseconds.

Is this a reasonable approach?

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:27 pm 
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If the displacement isn't bad you might do better using the nvidia-settings utility to tweak the driver. It can also help you tune up your X config file. You definitely want your refresh clock rate to match the broadcast frame rate or be an integer multiple of it. Anything else can cause funny artifacts.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:22 pm 
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Hold on: If your TV is 1024 x 1024, you're already at its limit.

What are you trying to do? Your TV is five years old.

Mike

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:33 pm 
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Mike,

According to the manual it is capable of both 720p and 1080i resolution with component input. That's how it works with the Panasonic set top box and I assume it does it by scaling.

With Myth I normally operate with a resolution of 1024x768 which the TV must scale to a 16:9 aspect ratio. What I am trying to do is get HD resolutions from Myth with the correct aspect ratio so the TV does not need to do any scaling. From what I have read, that should give a better picture. The picture I get with 720p looks good except for the horizontal displacement which I am trying to solve.

Thinking about your comment makes me think I should also try 1024x576 just for comparison.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:12 pm 
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Success!

By tweaking with the values in the modeline for 1280x720@50 I was able to align the picture correctly. I initially used a modeline calculated with a horiz sync time of 3.5 microseconds which still gave a margin down the left hand side of about 2mm. I then manually reduced the total horizontal limit and it lined up perfectly. The picture looks good but I will have to wait to see if I get the artefacts I used to get.

The modeline looks like this
Code:
Modeline "1280x720@50p" 58.64 1280 1312 1512 1536 720 736 744 760 -hsync -vsync

The all important options I used were
Code:
     Option "ModeValidation" "NoEdidModes,NoVesaModes,NoXServerModes,NoPredefinedModes,            ~NoDFPNativeResolutionCheck,NoEdidMaxPClkCheck,NoHorizSyncCheck,NoVertRefreshCheck"
     Option "ConnectedMonitor" "DFP"
     Option "UseDisplayDevice" "DFP-0"
     Option "UseEdidFreq" "false"
     Option "ExactModeTimingsDVI" "True"
     Option "UseEdidDpi" "false"
I may attempt to get 1080i working if I get enough time.

tjc, I did look at the nvidia-settings but could find nowhere to adjust the displacement.

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