I am told by comcast that they will discontinue providing analog signals at the end of 2008. This is not a big surprise since all OTA analog TV transmissions in the USA will be halted in Feb, 2009.

This will pose an interesting problem as the digital version of some of the channels in the extended-basic lineup can not be tuned with a digital tuner that is not cable labs certified. This includes channels like SciFi and Lifetime. All of the OTA channels can be tuned without a problem, as required by FCC regulations.

So the question becomes: How does one continue to record those channels. Some possible solutions:

1. Comcast does provide one digital tuner for free. The s-video out of that tuner could be connected to the s-video in of a PVR-150/250 card with channel control being done by either an IR blaster or firewire.

2. Perhaps someone will develop a digital tuner that is cable labs certified and that will work with mythtv? This would also require that mythtv support a way of securing the recordings in a way that is acceptable to the industry.

I realize this problem is a year away, but I'm wondering if any others out there have thought of ways to deal with this. THanks!

Marc

Can you provide more detail on your source? CSRs are often VERY misinformed. Comcast CSRs even more so.

I find it hard to believe that they will cut-off analog BEFORE the analog OTA goes dark. (even 2 months.)

They keep airing ads that say analog TV owners will be screwed in 2009 unless they have cable; implying that Cable will keep analog available. On the other hand, this could be a case of lie-by-omission false advertising. They forgot to mention that you need to have a digital cable STB on every set in order to not be screwed.

I've heard some amazing BS from their reps. However, they have actually shut down analog cable in the city of Chicago, and that is the plan for their entire service area nationwide.

Actually, a little analog service is left over, but its for "basic" cable only. Anything above "basic" is strictly digital.

The source was a Comcast rep that I contacted via Comcast's chat interface. I choose to check with them after I read this article -- http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6432144.html . Comcast has already eliminated analog transmission of expanded basic in some areas of Chicago.

Perhaps the change won't occur in exactly December, 2008, but it is coming. I can understand why they want to do this -- analog transmissions use a lot more bandwidth than digital transmissions do, so converting to all digital will enable them to sell additional services with their existing infrastructure. Comcast will provide 1 digital set top box for no additional fee, so cable subscribers will be able to continue using their TV's with analog tuners. People that want to continue receiving OTA transmissions with their existing TVs will be able to purchase up to two digital tuners for $30 each, after the government subsidy is applied. Each tuner beyond the first 2 will cost $70, as the subsidy is limited to 2 per household.

So they question comes back to what mythtv users do. The digital tuners supported by Mythtv only work with channels that are transmitted "in the clear". In my area all of the analog channels are also available in standard-def digital format. I can tune in all the digital channels that originated from an OTA station, CNN, shopping channels and a few others. I cannot tune in ScFi, lifetime, WGN and several other "expanded basic" channels.

I outlined two approaches in my original post -- I would be very interested in hearing other ideas people may have. Thanks!

Marc

No wonder this is news to everyone. We use MythTV what are these ads and commercials you speak of?

If they give you one free STB then that can be outputed into an analog card via Svideo, but that gets complicated with more than one analog tuner. The ppl it really sucks for is the PVR-500 and multiple analog card users.

Also QAM/ATSC cards like the Kworld cards are coming down in price last I looked the kword-115 was cheaper than the PVR-150. I got a HDhomerun for QAM over a year ago and love it. It does sucks not all channels are broadcast in clear QAM, but recordings are higher quality than analog even when viewing on a SDTV.

The more 3rd party digital converters the more likely one will be hacked to perform in a more open manner.

What I've done with FiOS is the following:

* My PVR-150 does IR blasting to a set-top box to record all the channels

* My PVR-250 is set up to record the VERY few analog channels that FiOS offers (like you said, basically OTA local channels). This tuner has a higher priority than the 150, so that local stations get recorded here and free up the 150 for other things.

*My HD-3000 continues to record OTA HD broadcasts.

Until cable systems start putting more channels out on open QAM we will definitely be losing out on channels we used to be able to record.

How is the quality of the recording made from the set-top box/PVR-150 compare to the quality of the recording made from the pvr-250's tuner? Thanks!

Marc

Converting to all digital means that for convenient or HiDef recording solution you have to rent their DVR box.

Actually, this is not correct. The TIVO HD DVR will work on their system and is able to record all channels that you subscribe to, weather they are encrypted or not. More generally, any device that has a cable card slot and has passed appropriate certifications is able to tune in any channel that their set top box tunes in. The only exception to this is the "on demand" programmng -- that still require that you use their set top box. Over time, products will come to market that are also able to interface with the on-demand programming.

Marc

The recordings from the analog channels are noticeably worse than the recordings via STB/S-video to the 150. Very noisy, but it's mainly recording Oprah for the Mrs., and it's fine for that.

The 150 recordings might seem a little blurry but other than that the quality is very good.

However, the analog recordings I'm getting from FiOS are noticeably BETTER than the analog recordings I was making from Comcast, which tells you how bad Comcast looked. I've spoken to a number of friends in the area and they have the same complaints about the analog channel quality decreasing dramatically in the past year. So I guess they're strangling them slowly before they finally kill them altogether.

I bet they won't, neither will TimeWarner.
They'll keep sending analog, downconverting where necessary, as long as it fills a need. There will be TV commercials touting "switch to cable, it works with your TV".
My opinion only, I have no inside information.

Time will tell what will really happen, but a reality check is that Comcast has already discontinued analog for extended-basic channels in some areas, including Chicago.

Marc

So, essentially, that means MythTV will not be able to record the Discovery channel and other cable channels next year without some sort of down-converting cable box S-video trickery, and will most likely never be able to record high definition cable channels.

Tivo HD isn't looking so bad anymore.

Although, does anybody know if Chicago has increased the number of clear-QAM stations beyond the normal handful?

Here's my two cents..

While Comcast may stop sending an analog signal at the end of 2008 .. those with a digital comcast box will continue to get an analog signal from that box to their "old technology" TVs. (I've been on Comcast Digital for quite some time.. and don't have anything HD.. yet.)

All of Comcast's advertising is about HD .. I suspect the Warner Cable is talking up the same. They don't have any interest in talking about the older technology.. yet, I don't see them cutting off any customer that hasn't spent the wad on HD gear.

I have a brother that lives in a "remote" part of Connecticut. (OK, that's supposed to be funny!) He is a customer for a much smaller cable company. Their advertising is geared toward another strategy.. probably because the small fry is afraid of loosing business to the big satellite outfits like Dish & Direct TV .. so instead of hyping the HD .. they pledge to keep providing a signal to the older analog TV gear.

Do a quick compare of the stock price over the past six months between Comcast (CMCSA) vs. Dish (DISH) or Direct TV (DTV) .. (Can you say "tank"?) Comcast has a right to be nervous! Does it look like Comcast wants to loose a single customer?

BTW.. the Comcast jerk has you hoodwinked.. that first cable box is not "free". The customers keep paying for it over and over again every month. (and I've way over-spent my two cents!)

_________________
// Brian - Hardware:
ASUS P5P800 - P4 3Ghz, 500 GB PATA HD
ASUS P5K-V - P4 Core2 Duo, 500 GB SATA HD
Hauppauge PVR-350, IR Blaster, Comcast Digital Cable
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/KnoppMyth/
KnoppMyth R5F27 >> R5.5

That is correct. I don't know if the number of clear-QAM is the same or not in Chicago. Check the Chicago-Comcast thread on AVSForum.com to get the real scoop.

TIVO-HD will be looking good once shows can be archived and streamed.