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License for MP3 and DVD Playback
http://forum.linhes.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=9500		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  steven_ellis [ Wed Apr 05, 2006 7:23 pm ]
Post subject:  License for MP3 and DVD Playback
Has anyone here looked into what it would take to get an official license for MP3 and DVD support. I have customers who want a fully configured MythTV device, but the legalities of the MP3 and DVD playback are an issue.

A direct MP3 license costs a minimum of US$15,000 which is way to high.

I've thought if I could bundle a shrink wrapped product that has a license would that be OK even though the customer would never use the shrik wrapped software.

Any ideas?

Steve
Author:  willem [ Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:24 am ]
Post subject: 
License??? For a device that can play back these formats? Perhaps in the US the DeCSS protocol has certain restrictions, but for MP3 I wouldn't know what licensing restrictions there are.
Of course you cannot sell a MythTV box with lots of MP3 songs and DVD rips without paying royalties to the respective artists.
Author:  steven_ellis [ Thu Apr 06, 2006 2:31 am ]
Post subject: 
In order to ship any device that performs MP3, MPEG 2, or DVD playback in a commercial form you have to pay a license.

Now I might be covered for MPEG2 and DVD if the DVD drive comes with a licensed software product, but MP3 is a different matter.

This is why a lot of Linux Distros don't "officially" come with MP3 support. Fedora and Suse operate like this.

Steve
Author:  ryanpatterson [ Thu Apr 06, 2006 6:38 am ]
Post subject: 
steven_ellis wrote:
In order to ship any device that performs MP3, MPEG 2, or DVD playback in a commercial form you have to pay a license.

what country are you talking about, USA? MP3 (MPEG-1 layer-3) and MPEG-2 are not protected formats. Only specfic algorithms to en/decode them are protected. But there are many opensource algorithums that can be used.
DVD is another story. There are laws making software that brakes copy protection illegal. So CSS unscrambleing code is illegal but not the software that plays back the DVD.
Author:  mad_paddler [ Thu Apr 06, 2006 7:22 am ]
Post subject: 
You do not need a license to distribute an mp3 decoder. You do need one for an mp3 encoder.
Author:  steven_ellis [ Thu Apr 06, 2006 2:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
Sadly the license changes a couple of years ago and if you ship a commercial product with MP3 decoding you have to pay a license

http://www.mp3licensing.com/help/developers.html

Steve
Author:  Xsecrets [ Thu Apr 06, 2006 4:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
I still say you shouldn't be able to extract any license fees if you do not do so from the get go. I can't stand companies that let their patents sit until it becomes an entrenched standard then come back and try to extort fees.
Author:  steven_ellis [ Fri Apr 07, 2006 1:09 am ]
Post subject: 
Xsecrets wrote:
I still say you shouldn't be able to extract any license fees if you do not do so from the get go. I can't stand companies that let their patents sit until it becomes an entrenched standard then come back and try to extort fees.


I totally agree, but sadly they have the right to change the license, which is what happened with MP3. This was why RedHat pulled the MP3 code out of their distro a couple of years ago.

Ultimately I want the product i'm working on to be an additional KRP for the NZ market, but for the moment I need to so a whole load of tweaks for the HW. Details at http://www.openmedia.co.nz.

Unless I get an MP3 license I have to officially pull out the MP3 support.

Steve
Author:  alien [ Fri Apr 07, 2006 1:36 am ]
Post subject: 
steven_ellis wrote:
Sadly the license changes a couple of years ago and if you ship a commercial product with MP3 decoding you have to pay a license

http://www.mp3licensing.com/help/developers.html

Steve
Interesting web page. It is unclear to me if they are claiming license rights to the ISO standard, or to their particular SW implementation.

You will probably find clearer answers if you look at the licensing details of lame and mpg123 ( http://lame.sourceforge.net/ and http://sourceforge.net/projects/mpg123). Both are GPLed.

Allen
Author:  steven_ellis [ Fri Apr 07, 2006 4:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
If you ship a binary as part of a commercial product based on anyones MP3 code that doesn't carry a license provided by http://www.mp3licensing.com/ then you need to get your own license. Doesn't matter if the code is opensource or not.

Supplying the OpenSource source and having someone build their own binary is ok.

Steve
Author:  Greg Frost [ Fri Apr 07, 2006 5:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
steven_ellis wrote:
Supplying the OpenSource source and having someone build their own binary is ok.

So why not just build from source as part of the installation process?
Granted this would take a lot longer to install, but you could sell the hardware uninstalled and charge a small service fee for installing the software. You whould just have to warn them that an install takes several hours if they need to re-install themselves from the CD you would presumably give them.
Author:  alien [ Sun Apr 09, 2006 5:37 am ]
Post subject: 
I stand corrected :oops:

I see now that lame is no longer part of the regular debian distribution for these reasons.

Allen
Author:  khrusher [ Mon Apr 10, 2006 7:53 am ]
Post subject: 
Seems if you are distibuting a "game" and less then 5000 copies, no license is required.

From the quoted website:
Quote:
Do I need a license to use mp3, mp3PRO or mp3surround in games?

Yes. Games using mp3/mp3PRO encoded content are licensed on a per-title basis.

However, no license fees are due if less than 5 000 copies of a particular game title are distributed.


Ship the MP3 code as part of MythGame :)
Author:  steven_ellis [ Tue Apr 11, 2006 12:36 am ]
Post subject: 
alien wrote:
I stand corrected :oops:

I see now that lame is no longer part of the regular debian distribution for these reasons.

Allen


No Worries.. This is a real pain.

I have customers who want a "FULLY" supported system. No hacking code or compiling stuff, and they want to know is it legit. Hence I need an MP3 license.

Steve
Author:  alien [ Tue Apr 11, 2006 2:01 am ]
Post subject: 
Just some thoughts:

If your customers want to upload their CDs into an a jukebox and play them through their stereo, they probably don't want to use .mp3 (whether they know it or not). There are better options already available and free. I use flac which is completely lossless.

Admittedly, I also have scripts that convert a playlist to mp3 and download to an mp3 player, so I'm not completely mp3 free.

As for DVDs, you are technically of luck. On the otherhand, I still have my stand alone DVD player because I found the mythtv menu support disappointing (admittedly, this may be improved) and I could not find a quiet PC DVD.

Allen
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