new I couldn't be the only one who wanted it

I was referring to reliability and ease of use (per the quote of yours I included), not installation.

Hey slow down the bandwagon, I want to get on

I appreciate that everyone is entitled to there opinion, but how can I put this nicely, "Pull ya head in!"

I don't see anywhere posted on here that says, 'This system is so easy to install, your grandmother could do it blindfolded with one arm tied behind her back.'

I have meet many "techs" in my time with in excess of 20 years experience, that have trouble fixing windows xp, setting up broadband routers, resolving networking issues, etc, etc. I could go on and on, some of these people need to have a good look at themselves, I think you do too.

When taking on something like this, which is an ALPHA version, meaning it is only for hardcore people that have the time and patience, you have to accept that there may be issues. johnjohn, you have got 16 post, I think 4 of which are in this thread, so I don't believe for one second that you have given this a fair shake.

I totally disagree that distro is just for a small demographic, have a look at the active number of members on this forum alone, look at the active members on the gossimer mailing list and you will see that MythTV and KnoppMyth have a great following all across the globe.

In conclusion, if you ever come to Australia, let me know so I can punch you in the nose

_________________
Girkers

I don't think it's unfair to have ONE thread that tries to 'constructively' criticise knoppmyth. I stated I would praise it were I a linux admin.

Regarding my experience I programmed in assembly language for a few years, then dos, win3.1-->win xp using 8086, pascal, c, c++ etc. I have also worked on the development of a similar app to myth under windows (on which I can do/fix anything believe me!), some of you have probably used it (but I prefer to remain anonymous). So I have a lot of experience in ALL coding and TV areas, EXCEPT linux which is admittedly pretty poor. Though I have setup freebsd+ apache+php+mysql from scratch and configured it before. True some of my problems may stem from trying to get an old matrox g450 tv-out working though this was attempted as the tv-out on most nvidia cards is pretty bad.

That said I was using a hauppuage dtv card which is probably THE most widely used card in the world and the remote doesn't work without having to edit various files and MORE IMPORTANTLY, Freeview radio doesn't work at all. These are not minor things but effectively marr any good points mythtv may have. I also had problems where an optical mouse -- KVM-->mythbox just goes crazy making it unuseable (same setup worked on freebsd+KDE and ALL windows machines). It has also locked up quite a few times and stopped/started recordings at random times.

I also find the GUI, way overkill for the functionality needed. I anticipated like a commercial recorder it would boot (fast) into the last TV channel watched and from there you could use the OSD, EPG while watching TV, which works really well, but also access recordings, music, photos, weather, etc in a similar way to the EPG, NOT via a menu 6 levels deep, many of which duplicate functionality elsewhere. To my mind the TV image is the root of the menu (not exit mythtv). It all seems back to front to the way a normal freeview recorder (or TV's themselves) always work. Having used XBMC a lot, the music browser shows album covers etc as you browse, the myth music browser is a bit confusing it seems to start from an odd point. It's just plain odd the way it works, compared to anything else. Standards have evolved over many years then just been ignored.

Sure you can huff, and say don't use it then nah! I'm just pointing out what to my mind would elevate myth from huge theoretical potential, to actual potential. i.e simplify/reorientate menu system with TV watching as root; get a stripped down version for nforce430-igp (TV out+DVI/VGA all working) + various tv-cards (inc Haup cards remote control), get freeview radio working, lump as much as possible of the non day to day essential stuff under and advanced menu, but the channel scanning needs to be off main menu as that is doen often when new channels appear (not having to exit myth to runmyth-setup to do it!).

I think it could be really good, it has a lot of untapped potential but as often happens developers focus on getting some obscure mad feature working or skins or ... rather than focusing on simple reliable useability first. Don't forget it's primary function is to simply watch TV/Radio if that doesn't work then what's the point, really? Maybe freeview TV (and radio) isn't seen as important but given there must be maybe 100 million freeview users worldwide it is surely the primary focus? Freeview recorders are appearing thick and fast, the hardware is cheaper than using Myth, OK it doesn't have all the features, but it soon will do and Myth will be redundant, that is if it doesn't focus it's direction and that would be a shame, all that time and effort for....?

Not intending to be negative, just trying to be realistic and help remind the developers to keep their eye on the prize.

"I don't think it's unfair to have ONE thread that tries to 'constructively' criticise knoppmyth. I stated I would praise it were I a linux admin."

You haven't done any constructive critiscism. Just vented.

"Regarding my experience I programmed in assembly language for a few years, then dos, win3.1-->win xp using 8086, pascal, c, c++ etc."

WHY DON'T YOU ACTUALLY FIX THE PROBLEMS THEN.

Moving from coding windows programs in C to programming linux programs in C is SIMPLE.

Is this guy a troll or something?

First of all, I want you to realize I'm trying to be civil. Too much uncivility in the world today. If I want uncivil I'll go read my political blogs.

You're confusing two separate development projects: MythTV and KnoppMyth. MythTV is the PVR, KnoppMyth is the installation package that tries to simplify getting MythTV up and running.

Of the problems you describe, about the only ones that might relate to KnoppMyth are the video card problems, and the remote not working. As I mentioned above, the easiest solution for the video card is to slap in a $50USD Nvidia card rather than beat your head against the wall with the Matrox. Not sure about the remote: None of your prior posts mention what remote you have (Hauppauge changes them from time to time, at least they did with the PVR series here), what doesn't work about it, and what you did to try to resolve the problems.

Everything else you've mentioned (Freeview radio support, usability of menus, GUI problems) are MythTV related. The radio support in particular doesn't seem to be a burning issue... I searched for "Freeview radio" in the mythtv-user mailing list and only turned up 35 messages, which isn't a lot. Searching for that term on the mythtv-dev list seems to indicate they're working on support for a future version. I imagine they could use help, particularly from someone with your experience.

BTW, if you think we're a hostile lot, try posting your suggestions on mythtv-dev or mythtv-user. Yowtch.

So you insisted on using hardware that is known to be difficult to configure under linux? A nvidia card will automatically enable the tv-out if you boot with a videocable attached. I agree about the quailty though. But there are better solutions then your matrox card (pvr-350).


Hauppauge changes their hardware like some people change their undershorts (actually more often then that). The remote for my hauppauge card didn't work "out of the box" when I first installed knoppmyth. But it does now because after a bit of time the correct files were added to knoppmyth. Did you even tell the developers that there was an unsupported hauppauge remote? How are they going to add support they don't even know is missing?

I don't even know what freeview is. But if radio is your most important feature for a video recorder program, why would you ever even try mythtv?

What are you talking about? Watching TV should be the highest level of the menu structure? So I have to leave my box in watch TV mode when when I'm not using it? That makes no sense.

"Exit the frontend" (which don't exit mythtv BTW) is not the highest menu level. It is a command you can enter when at the highest menu level.


The music browser interface is customizable. By default it uses the information in the id3 tags in your mp3s. How is that confusing?

Scaning for new channels is a day-to-day essential function? My cable feed changes channels maybe twice a year. I think I can handle loading up myth-setup thoes times. Why would you ever need to scan for channels as often as you say?

Wow does somebody like freeview much? Please tell us if freeview recorders are so great why did you try mythtv? Surely you could see from the feature list and discussion boards for mythtv that freeview is better. Are you perhapse trolling and advertising for freeview for some reason?

Well just to talk to a couple of points as mentioned already even though you thing radio is a big important thing obviously not everyone does. I for one could care less, and there have been very few requests for it here or on the mythtv lists.

Two about the menu structure I haven't used all of the so called standard devices the only one I've ever looked at is tivo, and for all the ease everyone says it has I think it's confusing as heck, and that mythtv's menu's are much easier. I agree more things could be done while keeping the tv/music running, and at one point there was discussion on the mailing list of moving that direction, though I haven't been following that, so I don't know where that stands these days.

lastly freeview and dtv cards are mostly unheard of in the US where the bulk of the development for mythtv has occurred the only way development gets done for systems in other parts of the world is for people to step up with that equipment from that part of the world. It is virtually impossible to develop for and test equipment you have no access to, and even if you did you wouldn't be able to really test as you have no access to the content.

_________________
Have a question search the forum and have a look at the KnoppMythWiki.

Xsecrets

Mr. johnjohn, hey MythTV ain't for everybody. KnoppMyth makes it accessible for most anyone with the inclination to do it but it takes some commitment. My family has been using a KnoppMyth PVR system for over 2 years and won't live without it.

Don't complain if you are not willing to do SOMETHING about making it better. Here are some ideas to do other than just complaining: make it work and post your experiences in the forums, write wiki's, write code, write HOWTOs, answer queries on the forum, send money or hardware to the developers. There is an endless list of ways to contribute.



C'mon ceevee703, you are not going to throw that little gem out without so much as a link now are you?



Andrew Lynch

Sorry, I should have said "read the political blogs I subscribe to." Didn't mean to imply I was running one... and probably wouldn't admit it if I was!

I thought I was being relatively constructive and civil in my posts and will continue to try to do so, despite the personal flack. (Yer I come on here to troll cos I have nothing better to do with my life! great useful post, thanks).

Fair enough MythTV is developed BY Americans for mainly Americans. As I said I would gestimate given that there are something like 8 million freeview boxes in the UK so far and as Freeview is also widespread in the rest of Europe, Australia and America possibly 100 million+ worldwide. So I'd guess (could be totally wrong) is the most popular of the various alternatives, suitable for a myth system. Some people misunderstand the freeview radio is broadcast the same as a video stream but ONLY contains the audio. Ths screen normally displays a logo with a bit of info. Maybe Myth is like American Football, only really played in America while the rest of the world plays Regular football (soccer), World cup this year.

I just looked in ths shops here and you can for example now buy a freeview (single tuner) recorder with 80gb hard drive for £95! that will work out of the box. I couldn't even get an athlon64 chip for that let alone the rest of the kit. All I'm trying to do is get back to reality that if Myth is to realise it's potential they should focus on solidifying and simplifying it and making it more user friendly, otherwise it will within 2 years be a dodo. Which is a shame. I seriously think they SHOULD look at the interfaces on commercial DVD/Freeview/Sky+ boxes. If it stays too computerey you may as well stick with windows. Windows MCE is the target, it sucks, but it also works easily for people. Thats why windows became popular, it doesnt matter how much better featured unix is, if most people cannot use it then it remains undiscovered. Windows popularity stands testament also to how much more important ease of use is over reliability, features, anything, it is the one ring to rule them all, while unix in the darkness blinds them.

That said I may try another install on an NF2-IGP board. Trouble is do I trust the machine to house all my media? I hear SATA has problems (only been out for 2-3 years!) what if it goes wrong, dunno if linux has the same system tools available to recover the data as a windows machine would. Does ghost work with it to backup a working system? etc etc.

I find myth a fascinating concept but the main things like TV output quality being inferior even to my old pace freeview box and no freeview radio, no remote (silver hauppauge, says not supported duing install) etc just conspire to ruin it.

Well I guess it all depends on what you have available to you. When I had DirectTV I used Tivo was perfectly happy (that's not to say I would not have wanted the extra features of MythTV). When I moved and went back to cable my choice was Tivo+subscription fee or MythTV. I chose MythTV for the cost savings and extra features. Was it free? no, I had to buy a complete new system for it! I tried using existing parts I had around the house and all I ended up with was several weeks of tearing out my hair. I went out and bought a system from the Tier 1 list and the MythTV installed and ran within 30 minutes. Just selected autoinstall and all the default options.

Since then I have spent hours tweeking it, but that is for getting the extra features (like integrating with itunes and my video ipod across the internet). But that was done for "fun".

I should mention that I have since added to my system a DVR from my cable company. Why? Because it came along with their HDTV tuner, and I now use both systems. The MythTV setup gives me incredible flexibility, control, and features. The cable DVR gives me incredible video quality (but only about 10 hours of HD recording). Thus if you can get a DVR with all the feautres you want (my cable one only has 1 week of guide, and a crappy season pass feature) for 200 pounds with no ongoing fee I'd say go for it. Why did you even consider MythTV?

Freeview is a UK only thing i think, other countries have similar services with different names.

johnjohn you need to ask for help better! Start a new thread listing your hardware, your problems & what steps you've taken so far. If you have some pos random freeview card, buy a hauppauge nova-t for £40. Works out of the box. The information is on the forums on how to get the remote to work.

I have the following setup and it works flawlessly in the UK

Asus a7n8x-vm
Sempron 2800
Hauppauge Nova-T
256mb ram
250gb hdd

Total cost was under £200

I don't get it, you want TV and radio recording that will work out of the box, so you chose MythTV with troublesome hardware?

1. KnoppMyth is alpha software
2. KnoppMyth is free
3. KnoppMyth will work out of the box if you choose the correct hardware
4. If Freeview radio is so important and you are an ace C programmer, then why not start coding a module for MythTV to record it instead of complaining that this free software did not do it for you?

If you wanted to could create your own MythTV distribution that just played TV and Freeview radio, booted right into live TV, and did not have all of the features you seem to think are unnecessary. The source is all there. Report back to us when you are finished.

Its always easier to say X doesn't work or MythTV doesn't have feature X. Its a lot harder to sit at your keyboard and code.