Just a little FYI on what the competition is up to. This site really does nice videos.

http://www.mythpvr.com/mythtv/distribut ... all-1.html

http://www.mythpvr.com/mythtv/distribut ... all-2.html

http://www.mythpvr.com/mythtv/distribut ... all-3.html

Personally I still like the apt-get goodness of debian, and the larger friendly user/dev base of resources on this forum + some of the Ubuntu popularity stuff applies because of the Debian roots. Oh yeah and knoppmythwiki.org has lot of documentation.

We should send those guys a cake or something.

I have been wanting to do a video for some time on this. Whilst these are good, I wanted to do something different. Something with real people in it.

If the basic stuff is all that people are after that is fine, I personally am not a fan.

Any thoughts or script ideas, please let me know.

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Girkers

Their installer looks slicker, but I think the KM installer does a better job. I'm not sure that Windows XP is a great role model for an installer's look-and-feel. What's up with the SELinux setup screen anyway? "This is a HUGE improvement over 3.2 ... [that] SELinux is disabled by default." Um, why does it even show up? Same thing with the "Upgrade from previous version" button. If it doesn't work don't offer it. "Here's a pretty GUI with nice buttons that can guarantee your install will fail." My hat is off to them for the effort though. OK, so neither distro gets the award for having a 100% bullet-proof installer, but compared Win MCE any Myth Distro is Worth more and Costs less [nothing]

Also I'm not sure I think of MythDora as competition to KM. I know people apt-get KM into everything-but-the-kitchen-sink installations, but I think of KM as better for people who want a standalone PVR that they can tweak without "warranty is void if this sticker is removed" MythDora is better for people who want a Linux Box that records TV. -- That is KM competes with TiVo, MythDora Competes with Windows MCE. they're in slightly different, but overlapping niches.

I couldn't watch the flash videos, since I'm on 64-bit Ubuntu and VideoDownloader doesn't like that page, but I took a look at their guided installer tour, and at one point, they indicate that it'll take 20 minutes to install after some initial setup and the disk formatting. That seems really long to me. I can take a Dragon 2.0 from bare metal to MythTV in 13 minutes with KnoppMyth.

In general, it seems that MythDora asks a lot more questions of its users during the installation process, which requires the users to know more about their system, take more time interacting during the installation, and have more chances to get something wrong.

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KnoppMyth R5.5
MythiC Dragon v2.0
Join the KnoppMyth Frappr!

I was looking at what the competition was doing and found this tid bit in their FAQs:


Anyone want to hack a MythDora box

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Girkers

For what it's worth, I currently run KnoppMyth as my MythTV box, but I've been switching back and forth every few months. (It's my video.)

Here are my thoughts on the competitive landscape...not so well organized.

1. A rising tide lifts all boats...we're all really MythTV users when push comes to shove. What's good for MythDora is good for KnoppMyth in the long run, and vis versa.
2. MythDora cleaned up their act a lot in this release in terms of overall professionalism. They deserve a lot of credit. In terms of professionalism, the installer for both MythDora an KnoppMyth in my mind were bad. Installation questions in a text based terminal? While that's fine for Linux geeks, that's not acceptable to newbies. MythDora made huge strides in that regard and now sets the standard by which I will compare the future versions of KnoppMyth.
3. The speed of the KnoppMyth install and how lightweight it is is great...just check out my previous "Install KnoppMyth in 20 minutes" videocast. MythDora is a dog in that reguard.
4. I think the end user bootup experience of MythDora and KnoppMyth are both horrible when compared to a (already installed) MiniMyth system. Both distributions should be looking there for ideas methods, and scripts. If the real intent of KnoppMyth is to be "like Tivo", MiniMyth really should be looked at for inspiration. (On the flip side, the installation and configuration is horrendous!)

There is plenty of cross-pollination that can and should be taking place...that's a sign of a healthy and growing market.

I consider myself a MythTV user, and don't have any allegiances to MythDora or KnoppMyth. I am interested in, and try to cover, all things MythTV.

Hope I've provided some constructive food for thought.

-Pete
http://www.mythpvr.com

Certainly, GUIs are prettier, and there are people who will reboot at the first sign of a terminal window, regardless of how easy the text-based UI is to use. I think it's safe to say that the UI work for KnoppMyth has thus far been on functionality, but appearance is being worked on.

Wow, I could almost install KM twice in that time It's surely very hardware-dependent, though.

I'm not sure exactly what you're talking about here. Bootsplash, maybe? An already-installed KnoppMyth system gives you a nice bootsplash image if you choose it. (It's even auto-selected for Dragons.) Not sure how that can equate to horrible, if that's what you're referring to. Do you have a picture of what MiniMyth looks like when it boots?

I agree. Certainly, people are free to grab the scripts in KnoppMyth and use them on MythTV boxes in general, and I probably should install MythDora and take a look at it to see if there's anything from it that could help us. No need to reinvent the wheel.

I'd take a look at MiniMyth if it weren't for the aforementioned installation woes. If it came in the form of an ISO, it'd have a lot more eyes on it.

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MythiC Dragon v2.0
Join the KnoppMyth Frappr!

Basically it comes down to little things. With MiniMyth, you never see a desktop, or anything that remotely resembling an end user desktop. The machine, other than a black screen while X is starting (with the X cursor), goes directly from the very professionally looking bootsplash into mythfrontend.

The end result is something that "feels" like a true appliance, rather than a desktop computer performing appliance like duties. It feels much more like a purpose built Tivo type device.

Someday I may be able to make a video of the bootup, but at the moment the system I was running it on is performing backend duties (while sipping 35 watts of power instead of 80 from the machine it replaced.)

-Pete
http://www.mythpvr.com

So if KnoppMyth did these things, would it match what you're seeing in MiniMyth?
1) Used bootsplash for all boots, not just second post-install boot.
2) Used a different bootsplash image.
3) Used the bootsplash image as a desktop background, too.

Hmm, X and the window manager do need to start before the frontend can be run, so I can't otherwise figure how MiniMyth is doing what you describe. Even if you can take still images to show what you see, that'd help a lot. It doesn't need to be a video or a TVout capture.

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Join the KnoppMyth Frappr!

I am intrigued by this conversation. I appreciate that the end result of KnoppMyth is to have a MythTV "appliance" as such and would love to see what minimyth does inbetween boot and loading X.

Also I would hope that there are some digital artists out there that use KnoppMyth and I would hope that if they wish to help the project they could donate a boot screen or desktop graphic. I don't cecil would mind the submissions, I personally am graphically challenged so that why I have asked other people to help

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Girkers

It uses the ratpoison window manager, but what's really significant is that it does not load a whole desktop environment...no launch trays or anything.

ratpoison is intended to have no visual distractions and not be reliant upon a mouse (hence the name rat[mouse]poison.) That being said, any "bare bones" window manager would do.

Basically even though I know a window manager loads process wise, visually there is no evidence of it.

As far as bootup, there is a black screen between the bootsplash and mythfrontend as X loads, ratpoison is launched followed by mythfrontend. After the basic X is loading screen (black screen with X cursor in the center), mythfrontend is the next thing you see. You never see anything that makes you think "desktop workstation." If it were not for the X cursor on the screen for a couple seconds as the window manager and mythfrontend loads, you would never even know X11 was being used.

-Pete
http://www.mythpvr.com

Here's the bootsplash. I'm not sure if it's the latest revision. I found it on
http://linpvr.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2121&sid=9562ac60cc23240c893678e576c843f0

@mythpvr.com

BTW your videos got slashdotted

http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/07/05/29/2244233.shtml

I've seen that before, but it's used by a friend of mine who doesn't use mice. Is it still possible to use a mouse with ratpoison? If the mouse won't work, then the web browser and Democracy will not work. Also, Cecil configures some nice default menus and keyboard shortcuts for Xfce so that people can easily launch applications. Would ratpoison support that?

Maybe a visual 90% solution would be to use the same image for bootsplash as for the desktop background. As Girkers said, we just need someone to contribute them.

Do they suppress the nVidia logo from appearing when those drivers load?

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Join the KnoppMyth Frappr!

Without actually saying it, the implication from the video is that mythdora supports ATI graphics. That alone (if it is true) would be a good reason for someone to go for mythdora over knoppmyth.

Just like knoppmyth though, there seemed to be a lack of anything that would help someone get the best out of their video out (i.e change resolution). It's a complex problem I guess.